Has the Alfa 4C been a disappointment? I haven’t read good things...

"MegaSuper" (megasuper) 06/22/2015 at 22:09 • Filed to: None

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Seriously, I’m neither a fanboy nor a hater of this car, just wanted to discuss:

So I try to read as many American and British car magazines as I can, just to get a balanced view of what are the largest English-speaking buying markets. If I had to pick one, I’d go with the British magazines, because they give actual numeric ratings to the cars they review, plus they’re a bit more “strict” with regard to handling, suspension, etc.

What surprised me is that, in these mags, the 4C doesn’t seem to be doing that well. The American magazines complain about the interior and overall lack of refinement, (as well as the lack of cruise control and backup camera) while praising the engine note. Some say it’s a “pocket exotic”, others say “Eh it’s cool but get a Porsche.”

The British magazines, on the other hand, seem to be more scathing, and have said that:

1) The engine note is harsh/not-inspiring/sounds like a forced-aspiration “hatchback engine”

2) Engine and transmission response is slow

3) I don’t know if you call this handling, tires, suspension, or what, but they’ve said that the car will follow even the slightest grooves/tramlines in the road that other cars would just drive over. Rather than feeling “responsive” it just feels scary/too sensitive to very small surface changes.

4) Steering wheel is apparently awful. (Don’t know if that means to look at or to hold.)

Another reason I like British car magazines is that the back pages always contain a directory/compendium of review scores.

So Top Gear gave the 4C a 5/10...which is the same as a Volkswagen Touran.

Evo magazine did a group test of the 4C, new TTS, M235i, Exige S, Cayman, and Peugeot RCZ. The 4C finished dead-last, being the only car to get 3/5. (They do half-stars so you could also think of this as a 6/10.) IIRC they said the winner in terms of dynamics was the Exige, but since this was rather expensive, they gave the win to the Cayman (which I think received a perfect 5 stars).

So what does Oppo think is going on? I realize there are big differences between the USDM and EUDM models, but if anything you’d think the EUDM should be BETTER because it weighs so much less, no?

Or is this more a case of “look, you buy an Alfa because it’s an EMOTIONAL purchase, of course it’s a bit rubbish here and there.”

OR, something else to consider: Are the American magazines less harsh on the 4C because the Elise is no longer being sold in the USA, and hence the only natural competitor to the 4C is the Cayman? And since there’s nothing more “raw” on sale in the US currently, they can’t condemn it as much as the Brits?

I thought the Brits would view it as a sort of “half-TVR” and love the heck out of it, but I guess it doesn’t have the right sort of engine for that.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:10

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Interesting that TG Magazine gave it 5/10, because Clarkson LOVED the 4C.

signintoburnerlol > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:12

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Fuck the journalists, go to the forums and see. I’ve been reading the forums here and there, it seems the owners love it. A lot of them have owned some serious cars and it seems to be a sort of idealization in where they know the car has flaws and isn’t as good as the competition , they still love it.

aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:14

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To be fair on the alfa’s part, the alfas in the 60’s didn’t too high of praise either

but in my honest opinion the alfa’s major flaw (in the us at least) is the price

I mean 70K for a small two seater from a brand who hasn’t sold a car in the us since 1994 doesn’t seem like a good business practice to me

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:26

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The 4C is a streetable track vehicle in the same cross-shopping list of trackable street cars. Checkout the reviews of the Chevrolet Camara Z/28 and think about how different the British reviews would be. European car tastes have always ran almost a decade ahead of the US and China runs a decade behind America in terms of tastes it seems.

Milky > aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe 06/22/2015 at 22:27

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Not to be that guy but they’re $55k. Launch editions are that much, but I think they get a lot of options.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:39

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I get the emotional part, and if I bought one, no doubt I’d form a bond with it.

However, I’ve heard them (I think it was JB from evo) question why they took out the power steering (poorly) to increase feel, but didn’t put in a manual. Confuses me too.

djmt1 > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:51

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I’m British and I hate the 4C and I’ll be blunt, I see no reason why you would own one. Save yourself Ł30,000 and buy an Atom. In terms of performance and fun it will blow the 4C into another a universe and amazingly it is more practical since it has a boot unlike the Alfa.

uofime-2 > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:53

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It’s not the best value, its not well appointed, its not refined, its not the fastest car in it class.

It is a small Italian roadster and for some people that is enough.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 23:08

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if you read the magazines, the British rags mostly hated TVR too. They would always excuse them with phrases like “but you expect this insanity from TVR” or “A real sports car should try to kill you” or “the bonnet flaps around like a cardboard sheet at 100mph, but the weight savings from the thin material pay dividends in the acceleration”... Things like that... I think the Alfa isn’t quite crazy enough... Remember Europe gets (and LOVES) thier plethora of cheap, hot hatches. Cars like the Megane RS 275, and the crazy new (UK first) Civic SI, and the Peugeot 308 GTI and don’t forget they’ve had Focus and Fiesta ST/RSs for 30 years! They’re used to a flaming hot little hatch with room for your shopping, three blokes and a small dog that can turn sub-8-minute ‘Ring times. The Alfa costs more than all but the most ultra expensive of these hot hatches and is in many ways less refined, and offers only marginal or even no performance advantage. The Cayman is a great car... So... Well that’s a tough competitor. The Alfa is, however what you expect an Alfa to be, rowdy, a little weird, and very good at making you smile. Is that enough to beat an Audi RS3 in a by-the-numbers comparro? Maybe not. But the owners certainly seem to like the Alfa, and many of the French Ultra-hatch owners have been herd to mutter things like “well, its fast and comfortable, but its not... Interesting.” And the Golf R and RS3 are so competent they aren’t even amusing unless you’re driving dangerously fast... So what’re your priorities?

AthomSfere > aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe 06/22/2015 at 23:20

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They aren’t that much, but they are still high.

In fact, for the power it’s hard to justify it in the most interesting car scene America has had in decades. (4 of them or so).

A sealed hood, carbon fiber, mid engine car is great but... C7 money great? Slightly used mid tier Porsche great? FR-s / 2015 Mustang with cash left over to build it exactly how you want great? $25k more than a new Lotus Elise would be (if they were still in the US) great? Almost twice the cost of an Ariel Atom for a weekend car great? Honda Civic Type R finally coming to the US, go with a 4c great?

I keep thinking no, but damn I love the 4c.

MegaSuper > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 06/22/2015 at 23:53

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To be fair, the largest contribution Clarkson and crew make to TG mag are 1 article from each person, and then Clarkson has little one-liners in the compendium in the back. Short of the annual Car of the Year feature, I don’t think he actually drives or reviews the cars for the magazine. Different staff than the show.

I think he’s no longer a participant anyways; this month’s issue was the first to not have an article by him, and instead there was a “Quotes from Clarkson over the years” - type article.

There are definitely some US/UK splits regarding vehicles that make me wonder if it’s perception, suspension setup, etc. For instance, the Nissan GTR is respected but sort of “yawn-worthy” in the US press, whereas Top Gear UK gives it a perfect 10/10.

MegaSuper > AthomSfere 06/22/2015 at 23:55

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From what I’ve seen and read, those prices won’t be coming down anytime soon…the demand is too high and supply is too low. On US sites, some are $80K+. I agree entirely; at that price point it doesn’t make sense. The whole reason they compromised in some areas was to keep the price down. At or around the real price of $55K, it’s superb.

MegaSuper > Wobbles the Mind 06/22/2015 at 23:57

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This is interesting, but what do you mean specifically? Are you saying the Brits would be harder on the Z/28 because it’s American, or because it’s a rougher vehicle than the 4C or something…? I’m a bit confused.

MegaSuper > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 06/22/2015 at 23:59

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Yeah I almost feel like the FIAT family of Italian brands has a “no turning back”-type attitude regarding F1-style transmissions. They’ve put so much money and marketing into them over the years, I think going back to a stick-shift would be seen as a sort of withdrawal/defeat.

AthomSfere > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 00:09

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It’s really, really good, yes. But it has a ton of sacrifices for a $50k car, all things considered.

From a gut / logical standpoint it is a hard sell. From an emotional standpoint though...

Patrick George > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 00:11

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Best modern sports car I think I’ve ever driven .

Also, I’ve noticed the British media’s a lot more down on the 4C than we Americans have been. I think they’re pissed Alfa Romeo built a better Lotus than they’ve built in 20 years.

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 00:13

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That they wouled judge as a street car. Americans judge vehicles by their lineage. So the best handling Camara is a great thing. Brits would judge it as the heaviest track vehicle ever. Any vehicle with its own identity in the market is judged against itself first and then its competitors.

MegaSuper > Patrick George 06/23/2015 at 05:48

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How awesome/unexpected to have you reply! :D

Yeah that’s a great review. Love how “It’s an Alfa Romeo” is both a pro and a con, haha.

Curious though: Where do you draw the line at “Sports car” ? For instance, is the AMG-GT a sports car for the purposes of your statement, or is it a semi-exotic? What about a 911 4GTS? Is the BMW i8 just its own thing? Just curious who the 4C’s competitors are in the USA other than I guess the Cayman and the Camaro Z/28 (maybe). (That’s another funky Euro thing: Every Euro mag I’ve seen says that the 4WD version of the 991 is the one to have, whereas the American ones never say this.)

I remember posting a comment on some 4C-related article back when I was in the greys, so I never got a reply: How much of an issue is ground clearance/angle of approach on the 4C? Some European reviews I read said that it will scrape just on off-camber roads, let alone driveways/plaza entrances. Is it enough to make it a poor DD in your view?

And while I get what you’re saying, FWIW, in evo magazine at least, the Exige still gets much higher scores than the Alfa. It would be really interesting if the full Lotus lineup were offered in the US.

AM > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 11:16

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One thing you need to remember when reading a journalist review is that they’re the most contradicting and pickiest bunch of whiners out there. They will literally nitpick every last detail of a car, from the engine to the colour temperature of the headlights. That goes for both the Europeans and the Americans.

Look at how they bitch about steering becoming to “electric.” Alfa goes and removes power steering all together for that raw handling feel in the 4C and then the journalists will complain about it being too much work to maneuver the car.

As for the complaints about the exhaust note, it’s a 4-cylinder. It’s not going to sound like a Ferrari F12 or a Camaro Z/28, deal with it.

Basically, journalists (and auto enthusiasts in general) will complain there isn’t enough of a certain type of car, then when companies actually go and make that car they’ll bitch that it wasn’t what they had in mind. Some examples would be the Subaru BRZ, Chevy SS, Alfa 4C and there's lots more.